Okay, I think I've got it.
Jun. 26th, 2009 11:51 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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prob_japanese and not_toothfairy at Milliways, and aside from the general issues I had with Revenge of the Fallen as a movie, there were considerably more stemming from things that have been played out in the Bar. For one thing, given what we saw in the first movie and the prequel comic books, we said in Bar that Cybertron had been co-ruled by the Lord and the Prime all the way back to the First Thirteen in an unbroken lineage. For another, we said that the Fallen was one of the first thirteen mechs incepted by the Allspark- and that his name lost, but his title was derived from the fact that he was the first of all Cybertronians to die. We said that many- not all, but many- Cybertronians believed that the force that created and inhabited the Allspark was the power of Primus, and that Cybertronian sparks returned to join with Primus when they died. We also said that Megatron started the War because a Lord High Protector whose people are at peace goes looking for other things to do, and in delving into Cybertronian history he came to decide that he wanted more power than a mere co-ruler had- and not only temporal power, either; he wanted power over life and death itself, and to bring the galaxy, if not all existence, under his heel. Also, we said that until Megatron, there had not been war on Cybertron in a very, very, very long time, and that most of the wars of the past would have been with outside enemies. That was at least partly based on Bumblebee's statement in the first prequel comic that 'my generation and the generation before me had peace'... anyway, you can see where that conflicts with movie material.
Oh, and also: part of the movie involves the world at large finding out about the Transformers. That's kinda not gonna work for us either, because Optimus talked with the US government and went public last year. Ironhide and Bumblebee were guests of honor at a robotics convention in Japan, for pete's sake. The Decepticons've been avoiding Earth this whole time, as opposed to the constant attacks on Earth mentioned in the first ten minutes of the movie. Plus, well, we already had Jetfire on Earth and with the Autobots. Among other things. So, yeah, even if we were willing to say every single thing the Autobots have told the humans is a lie, we still need to go AU.
And I think we can do it, while still preserving some of the key plot chunks that came up in the movie. Let me float this as a trial balloon....
First came the Cube, which brought life to Cybertron; then came the First Thirteen, the beginnings of the Cybertronian race. First was Alpha Trion, granted wisdom. Second was Vector Sigma, born to create. Third was Orion Pax, made to analyze and direct, who became the first Prime. Fourth was Maximo, forged for strength and power, who became the first Lord. The names of the others are known, but the last listed of the Thirteen is the one whose name has been lost to history. First of all Cybertronians to die, they call him the Fallen, and none is mightier than he- because no one is mighty enough, ultimately, to escape death forever. Sooner or later, everyone falls.
The stories say that when his body was found, cold and sparkless, the Firstforged who remained did not understand at first. They feared what might become of them, and what might be lost forever when they, too, fell in their time. For the sake of those who would follow after, they built the Matrix of Leadership and imbued it with such knowledge and memories as each of them considered most important- and, the stories say, sealed it with a portion of their own sparks, in a surge of energy from the Allspark itself. Whoever held it would have at his command enough knowledge to command the allegiance of any mech who followed after- and the power to back it up.
But even the plans of the Firstforged can go wrong.
Orion Pax and Maximo shared the Matrix between them, and when the time came, consulted with the others of their generation in the presence of the Matrix itself to choose their successors. The Second Prime and the Second Lord were each well suited to their functions, but not each other, and they quarreled. One such quarrel, deep in space, led to an accident that literally tore their ship apart. Both mechs and their crew were rescued- but the Matrix was lost. No such quarrel would erupt again for long, long years. The lesson was learned, and the loss taken as an omen. The Matrix passed from history and into legend, and was all but forgotten.
But not entirely, and not by those who should never have learned of it to begin with. When Megatron began his first delvings into the deep history of Cybertron, he was not alone. His closest and most trusted aides assisted him in the search for the glories of the past. Starscream grew bored quickly, and returned to his function of daily defense and administration, but Shockwave had no such failure of temperament, having long ago put aside emotional processor responses in favor of greater efficiency and more ruthless processing. Everything that Megatron learned, Shockwave learned- everything. And he did not forget.
Megatron turned aside from legends of the deepest past to pursue more recent facts and histories, but Shockwave judged there to be enough truth to be worth pursuing. He arrived at the conclusion that, given appropriate starting information and time, the Matrix could be found and reclaimed. Megatron did not deem the search worthwhile and ordered him to turn his efforts elsewhere. Shockwave obeyed, but did what seemed most logical to him, and continued processing every piece of information that might conceivably be relevant. When the War broke out, his loyalty to Megatron dictated that he could best serve the Decepticon cause as a strategist and a logistics officer, and he was terrifying in his accuracy. When the Allspark was fired into space, and Megatron went in pursuit, he calculated his chances and opted not to follow. No good could come of it. Especially not since he had determined, at long last, the most probable path and location of the Matrix of Leadership; Shockwave was a very patient machine.
Starscream left Earth after the death of Megatron to round up an army and bring them to bear in the conquest of Earth. The puny fleshlings were of no particular challenge to him, but he wanted very much to take his place as leader of the Decepticons and emperor of the galaxy, and Earth seemed like an excellent place to start. Besides, it would let him keep an eye on Megatron's remains; he didn't trust his old leader to stay dead. Left to his own devices he would have been attacking Earth again within six months, but he never got to implement those plans. He encountered Shockwave in the darkness beyond the Kuiper Belt, and was subjugated by the older, more ruthless mech. Shockwave had plans, and they did not include a traitorous upstart who didn't know the meaning of patience.
Shockwave's data had pointed to the Matrix of Leadership entering a long cometary orbit around Earth's sun. It had- and then it had left that orbit, trailing in the wake of much, much larger objects that would ultimately slam into the third planet. The Matrix was somewhere on Earth, of that Shockwave was certain. He was certain of something else, as well: that if any power of the Allspark remained in the wake of its destruction and Megatron's death, it would almost certainly have rejoined the fragment within the Matrix. Find the Matrix, and the Cybertronian race could be reborn, with Earth becoming Cybertron anew. To that end they would need a true army, and they would not strike until Shockwave was absolutely sure that conditions were appropriate.
Shockwave was right about the Matrix's location, but wrong about something else. When the Cube was destroyed, the power within did not flee to the Matrix itself. It passed instead to a single living human, the last to touch the Cube- and then lay dormant. It would not waken again until Sam Witwicky came in contact with the Allspark shard in Optimus Prime's possession. And when it did, everyone would know it. Possession of both that power and the wisdom contained within the Matrix would make any mech an equal with one of the Firstforged- and, just possibly, mightier than the Fallen...
What do you think, sirs?
prob_japanese and not_toothfairy at Milliways, and aside from the general issues I had with Revenge of the Fallen as a movie, there were considerably more stemming from things that have been played out in the Bar. For one thing, given what we saw in the first movie and the prequel comic books, we said in Bar that Cybertron had been co-ruled by the Lord and the Prime all the way back to the First Thirteen in an unbroken lineage. For another, we said that the Fallen was one of the first thirteen mechs incepted by the Allspark- and that his name lost, but his title was derived from the fact that he was the first of all Cybertronians to die. We said that many- not all, but many- Cybertronians believed that the force that created and inhabited the Allspark was the power of Primus, and that Cybertronian sparks returned to join with Primus when they died. We also said that Megatron started the War because a Lord High Protector whose people are at peace goes looking for other things to do, and in delving into Cybertronian history he came to decide that he wanted more power than a mere co-ruler had- and not only temporal power, either; he wanted power over life and death itself, and to bring the galaxy, if not all existence, under his heel. Also, we said that until Megatron, there had not been war on Cybertron in a very, very, very long time, and that most of the wars of the past would have been with outside enemies. That was at least partly based on Bumblebee's statement in the first prequel comic that 'my generation and the generation before me had peace'... anyway, you can see where that conflicts with movie material.Oh, and also: part of the movie involves the world at large finding out about the Transformers. That's kinda not gonna work for us either, because Optimus talked with the US government and went public last year. Ironhide and Bumblebee were guests of honor at a robotics convention in Japan, for pete's sake. The Decepticons've been avoiding Earth this whole time, as opposed to the constant attacks on Earth mentioned in the first ten minutes of the movie. Plus, well, we already had Jetfire on Earth and with the Autobots. Among other things. So, yeah, even if we were willing to say every single thing the Autobots have told the humans is a lie, we still need to go AU.
And I think we can do it, while still preserving some of the key plot chunks that came up in the movie. Let me float this as a trial balloon....
First came the Cube, which brought life to Cybertron; then came the First Thirteen, the beginnings of the Cybertronian race. First was Alpha Trion, granted wisdom. Second was Vector Sigma, born to create. Third was Orion Pax, made to analyze and direct, who became the first Prime. Fourth was Maximo, forged for strength and power, who became the first Lord. The names of the others are known, but the last listed of the Thirteen is the one whose name has been lost to history. First of all Cybertronians to die, they call him the Fallen, and none is mightier than he- because no one is mighty enough, ultimately, to escape death forever. Sooner or later, everyone falls.
The stories say that when his body was found, cold and sparkless, the Firstforged who remained did not understand at first. They feared what might become of them, and what might be lost forever when they, too, fell in their time. For the sake of those who would follow after, they built the Matrix of Leadership and imbued it with such knowledge and memories as each of them considered most important- and, the stories say, sealed it with a portion of their own sparks, in a surge of energy from the Allspark itself. Whoever held it would have at his command enough knowledge to command the allegiance of any mech who followed after- and the power to back it up.
But even the plans of the Firstforged can go wrong.
Orion Pax and Maximo shared the Matrix between them, and when the time came, consulted with the others of their generation in the presence of the Matrix itself to choose their successors. The Second Prime and the Second Lord were each well suited to their functions, but not each other, and they quarreled. One such quarrel, deep in space, led to an accident that literally tore their ship apart. Both mechs and their crew were rescued- but the Matrix was lost. No such quarrel would erupt again for long, long years. The lesson was learned, and the loss taken as an omen. The Matrix passed from history and into legend, and was all but forgotten.
But not entirely, and not by those who should never have learned of it to begin with. When Megatron began his first delvings into the deep history of Cybertron, he was not alone. His closest and most trusted aides assisted him in the search for the glories of the past. Starscream grew bored quickly, and returned to his function of daily defense and administration, but Shockwave had no such failure of temperament, having long ago put aside emotional processor responses in favor of greater efficiency and more ruthless processing. Everything that Megatron learned, Shockwave learned- everything. And he did not forget.
Megatron turned aside from legends of the deepest past to pursue more recent facts and histories, but Shockwave judged there to be enough truth to be worth pursuing. He arrived at the conclusion that, given appropriate starting information and time, the Matrix could be found and reclaimed. Megatron did not deem the search worthwhile and ordered him to turn his efforts elsewhere. Shockwave obeyed, but did what seemed most logical to him, and continued processing every piece of information that might conceivably be relevant. When the War broke out, his loyalty to Megatron dictated that he could best serve the Decepticon cause as a strategist and a logistics officer, and he was terrifying in his accuracy. When the Allspark was fired into space, and Megatron went in pursuit, he calculated his chances and opted not to follow. No good could come of it. Especially not since he had determined, at long last, the most probable path and location of the Matrix of Leadership; Shockwave was a very patient machine.
Starscream left Earth after the death of Megatron to round up an army and bring them to bear in the conquest of Earth. The puny fleshlings were of no particular challenge to him, but he wanted very much to take his place as leader of the Decepticons and emperor of the galaxy, and Earth seemed like an excellent place to start. Besides, it would let him keep an eye on Megatron's remains; he didn't trust his old leader to stay dead. Left to his own devices he would have been attacking Earth again within six months, but he never got to implement those plans. He encountered Shockwave in the darkness beyond the Kuiper Belt, and was subjugated by the older, more ruthless mech. Shockwave had plans, and they did not include a traitorous upstart who didn't know the meaning of patience.
Shockwave's data had pointed to the Matrix of Leadership entering a long cometary orbit around Earth's sun. It had- and then it had left that orbit, trailing in the wake of much, much larger objects that would ultimately slam into the third planet. The Matrix was somewhere on Earth, of that Shockwave was certain. He was certain of something else, as well: that if any power of the Allspark remained in the wake of its destruction and Megatron's death, it would almost certainly have rejoined the fragment within the Matrix. Find the Matrix, and the Cybertronian race could be reborn, with Earth becoming Cybertron anew. To that end they would need a true army, and they would not strike until Shockwave was absolutely sure that conditions were appropriate.
Shockwave was right about the Matrix's location, but wrong about something else. When the Cube was destroyed, the power within did not flee to the Matrix itself. It passed instead to a single living human, the last to touch the Cube- and then lay dormant. It would not waken again until Sam Witwicky came in contact with the Allspark shard in Optimus Prime's possession. And when it did, everyone would know it. Possession of both that power and the wisdom contained within the Matrix would make any mech an equal with one of the Firstforged- and, just possibly, mightier than the Fallen...
What do you think, sirs?
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no subject
Date: 2009-06-26 04:43 pm (UTC)For myself, the whole concept of the Fallen amuses me because it keeps trying to get tangled up in my head with Diane Duane's Wizardry series... wherein a certain renegade Power is addressed as "fairest and fallen." I figure if I let the concept stew in my head long enough I'll get a fanfic out of it. ^_^
no subject
Date: 2009-06-26 04:53 pm (UTC)You can imagine the look on my face when the first news of the sequel's title came out.
no subject
Date: 2009-06-26 05:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-27 02:30 pm (UTC)This is news to me. Even if he was in the same canon, making those kind of major events happen without prior permission is just obnoxious.
no subject
Date: 2009-06-27 04:42 pm (UTC)It seems to be less of a problem now, but I'm still cautious.
Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 05:48 pm (UTC)Do they indicate how much time passed since the first movie?
Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 05:52 pm (UTC)Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 06:30 pm (UTC)Gnh. I thought having Megatron in my head would use up my spare processor cycles. Shockwave is worse.
Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 07:11 pm (UTC)Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 07:27 pm (UTC)*Not that he is capable of ever giving anything BUT a baleful look
Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 07:29 pm (UTC)Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 07:35 pm (UTC)Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-26 07:38 pm (UTC)Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-27 04:31 am (UTC)Mostly just curious. I'm the doctor, not the strategist
, Jim.Just point me at who needs fixing.Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-27 04:35 am (UTC)"Even in death there is only his command, Starscream."
Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-27 06:12 am (UTC)Cube shard, I'm guessing? And I was never clear on this during the movie: are there two? I couldn't tell if Mikaela handed over the one Sam found in his clothes or not.
Not that it matters since we're AU, but it bugged me.
Re: Icon Used For Relevance
Date: 2009-06-27 06:20 am (UTC)I'm not really sure we'll be needing two. I'm inclined to suggest- assuming it's kosher with Geoff, of course- that in the right hands (and only in the right hands), the Matrix of Leadership can be used to incept a protoform with a new Spark. Or something along those lines, anyway.
no subject
Date: 2009-06-27 01:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-27 01:40 am (UTC)"And the Thirteenth is the Fallen, the first to die; his name lost to us down all these years. He was the first to enter the cold dark. It is in the cold dark that we remember we all will eventually cease, no matter how powerful; that was the tainted gift of the Nullspark, that we would eventually cease. But the Allspark would resist, and there would be others, more of us, going on, to resist the Nullspark. And even as we ceased to operate, our sparks would be gathered by Primus, our experiences added to his wisdom, until all are one. And on that day, Primus will defeat the Nullspark, and recreate us all, to live in peace."
There's room in their theology for Unicron. We just didn't want to be forced into anything with him instead of being consulted and allowed to decide what we accepted.
ETA: psiTunes started on "I Claim Your Sun" from the ROTF score as I typed this.