Massive insecurity fit.

[camwyn]

Had one today. I was reading this article about the phenomenon of 'Yellow Fever' - i.e., the way some American white guys go gaga over the prospect of Asian girls simply because they're Asian, usually Japanese, rather than for any reason to do with who they are or what they're like. Just as I was smiling to myself and thinking about the stereotypical Annoying White Wolf MUSH character, the Green-Eyed Lesbian Asian Schoolgirl, something hit me between the eyes. It started with this bit:

"I’ve definitely seen one too many dorky white-guy musicians who play "Oriental fusion" music, wear their hair in a samurai bun, and have Chinese characters tattooed on their pecs – all in the interest of aligning themselves with "ethnicity" in some way."

From there my mood rapidly went downhill - not into 'bad mood' territory, but into 'oh dear God noooooo' territory. By the end of the article, even though it was specifically about American men and sexual/romantic interest in Asian women because of perceived attributes associated with their ethnicity, I was mentally going through my entire wardrobe and wondering how many of the Chinese-inspired items I could get rid of before I looked like a total pretentious snot. VicMage.Asia suddenly looked like nothing but yet another Westerner hopping up and down excitedly and going 'oo, oo, exotic! oo, stuff from Asia is twenty times cooler than stuff from the West, automatically! oo, as a total outsider who's never had anything to do with the cultures involved I can still write about this stuff and portray it and be thought of as wonderful!'. I mean, geez, I've got a replica terra-cotta crossbowman from Qin Shihuangdi's tomb on my computer desk - next to the little red horse carving, with the big ol' poster of Zhanyinbao the Bodyguard on my wall and a bunch of Chinese bamboo brushes and a freakin' chop - I must look like some kind of utterly and totally idiotic Asian culture fangirl who's too stupid to recognize that she's on the outside of her chosen culture-of-obsession (Chinese) and always will be, no matter what she tries...

Didn't help that I'd made up my mind about five minutes before to get Hunan beef from Empire Szechuan, the local good Chinese restaurant (there are others nearby but they're kind of eck), then drive to the nearest Asian market and come home with chocolate mochi ice cream. Which I did, but I spent my entire time in the store with my head down, even though I normally wander through the aisles happily thinking 'I recognize that! And that! And I know what those are for! Oooo, LIVE FISHIES FOR DINNER! I didn't know you could cryovac that!'. For the record, green tea mochi ice cream balls ain't as impressive as chocolate ones, but they're still okay even if the long ride home got 'em a little melty...

*sigh* I dunno. I'm gonna hide behind my Cantonese phrasebook and try not to think about it before touching VicMage.Asia again. I know it's good, it's just... I'm terrified someone actually Chinese will look at it and smack me upside the head for being a pretentious little git, or someone Japanese will look at it and choke over what I did with that part of the setting, or... I'm just ... It keeps coming down to this massive fear of being seen as pretentious. Of being a poser. Of not even ever being AWARE of the fact that I'm a poser.

I'm gonna go freak out now, okay?

Comments

[porpentine.livejournal.com]

Not that this may fix things, since I know how worries like this go. But...I think I can pretty safely say that you were hardly jumping on a bandwagon here, or going crazy over any culture or group of cultures because it would make you look -cool-, or something of the sort. Which is, in the end, all the matters. You're allowed to be appreciative of other cultures, even to this degree. You hardly jump at EVERYTHING related and say immediately that it's cool for you without trying it. It's not a kneejerk sort of 'I have to like everything about X in order to be cool or worthwhile or...whatever' reaction.

Take some time to think about it. But as long as you're aware enough to even question things? I'd say you were pretty good to go

[kyrielle]

I'd have to agree with porpentine here. Just thought I'd say that. :)

Culture from the outside

[vagabondkiri.livejournal.com]

I have a similar sort of thing -- only mine's just a bit less common. I developed, over the past couple of years, a fascination with the Rroma. I am not Rroma myself, but I was doing character research for a Lovara Romni character for a Marvel game, and things just stuck. I fell in love with what little of it I've been able to get, and it, along with old Russian folklore, has become a growing interest of mine.

I don't fancy myself an 'adopted member' of the culture, and I wouldn't dress or act like one, but I love learning about the people. Some part of me always wonders if I'm being a fangrrl in the process, but the one person who I know to be of Rroma extraction who's seen me play a character with an admittedly-less-insular view of her own culture hasn't told me I'm completely fucking up, so I figure I'm at least not offending anyone.

Which reminds me. If anyone knows of a place to get decent Romani-English dictionaries, let me know. My husband and I have both tried the big language dictionary store on Manhattan, and the only one they had in stock was the one I already own.

[swisscheesed.livejournal.com]

Well, you're not dating anyone based on their ethnicity are you? Just because I like furniture from Ikea and like the taste of pickled herring doesn't mean I'm terminally obsessed with the Swedes. It's an aesthetic and culinary preference.

[swisscheesed.livejournal.com]

Admittedly however, some people overdo it, like a very annoying ex-co-worker who had to pronounce words like "Kyoto" the correct way and loved to make Japanese girls go "tee hee." Drove me up the waaaallll.

Eeeeeu.

[camwyn]

No. nononono. Definitely not dating someone based on their ethnicity; the one time I tried asking an Asian guy out was in high school, and it was because he was the only guy on the schoolbus who was anything other than a moron headed for a lifetime of sexual harassment charges. (I do not have happy memories of that schoolbus, unless you count the day I implied to one guy I'd knife him in the crotch.) He was into science fiction and other such things almost as much as I was, and that was the part that mattered. Got shot down, but yanno, I tried for the right reasons. I sure as hell wouldn't try for someone based on their ethnicity now. That's just cheesy as hell.

As for other stuff - I try not to overdo it. At least, I think I do. It makes my teeth hurt when my dad insists on pronouncing 'karate' (I'm taking lessons from the Isshin Kenpo instructors at what used to be the local YWCA) the way Mr. Miyagi did in the movies. Other than occasionally asking Na, our office's chief accountant and a native of Shanghai, how to say 'die horribly, you evil machine' in Mandarin... okay, and the occasional purchase of clothing from chinasprout.com (not very often now that I've found I can't fit into any women's tops smaller than XL)... I try not to be obnoxious about it. The trouble is that every so often, like today, I freak out and don't know *what* constitutes obnoxious fangirlism on my part, and what's simply a strong interest.

I'm so tired of this. I just don't want to be a dork or a poser or an otherwise blatantly moronic person when all I really am is strongly interested. I'm afraid I won't know where the line is, and next thing I know I'll have offended someone, somehow.

Don't worry...

[goweli.livejournal.com]

...you've never struck me as a fangirl. I've always felt that you had/written with a great deal of respect about Asian culture. Also, you're willing to learn, to ask questions, not stopping at the parts you like and setting yourself up as the Expert. But I understand the feeling, I went through a mild "Celtic" period, the other great Geek adoption bit and felt entirely self conscious about it. Still do, actually. Anyway. I think if you are worried about it, chances are you're self-aware not to become all fangirl about it.

Er, this was supposed to be supportive. I hope it was. :)

-Sasha

[lwood.livejournal.com]

If it helps, no, I don't think you have a poser's obsession and Sinophilia.

I think you have an honest student's obsession and Sinophilia -- this is a different and more worthy thing. Of course, I have what I hope is an honest student's obsession and Teutonophilia (if that's the right word), so I'm biased!

-- Lorrie

Oh! *AND*!

[lwood.livejournal.com]

As long as you're conscious of 'I might be a poser,' and consciously take non-posing steps, you're probably safe. At least, that's the common stance around here on such things -- it's when you no longer question yourself that you should worry (although of course you wouldn't be by then).

Anyway! Doubts! Healthy!

-- L

[khaosworks.livejournal.com]

You're no more a poser than I am for being equally obsessed with American culture and history.

It's all a matter of perspective and intent.

[camwyn]

I am sufficiently comforted by this that I will refrain from making comments about you being a Red Sox fan. (Sorry. Born and raised in New York City. Technically I think I'm supposed to be at war with backers of Boston or something.)

[khaosworks.livejournal.com]

Bah. Remember, we sold you Babe Ruth. You should be thankful for that.

[tibicina.livejournal.com]

Just to chime in with the others....

1) you actually study the cultures in Asia and learn about them, you don't just want things that look Japanese because Japan is cooler or more exotic.

2) I'm betting you have bothered to look up what anything written on the shirts you own actually means.

3) You are willing to debate and discuss and analyze; you don't just go 'But, of course, the katana is better than the broadsword; it's Asian.'

Basically, this world would be a much poorer place if we weren't allowed to learn about and appreciate and even love cultures other than the one we were born into. That said, I think it is kinda important to try our best to /actually learn about and understand/ the cultures rather than just deciding that everything about them is automatically better or just stealing all the surface stuff to be cool. (Ok, I also think that it is a valid choice to say 'Look, I like Chinese food, I'm just not all that interested in the rest of the stuff.' It's just creepy to go 'Everything Asian is cooler than everything western, but I don't wanna have to actually learn the history or think about it.')

Pshaw

[quintus.livejournal.com]

Insecurity is rarely rational.
You do what you do and do it well, not because you secretly hanker after stalking Jet Li but because the culture fascinates you. You are no poseur. I know enough of the genuine article.

(Speaking as the guy with a slight obsession with a dead empire)

[yfdp.livejournal.com]

Dammit, I think LJ just ate my reply, so here it is again; sorry if it's redundant:

---

Um this reply is kinda doing double duty, since I'm replying both to this post and one that you made, uh.. approximately nine months after this on May 19, 2003.

1. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself..

2. I disagree that fanboy/fangirlness is inherently annoying. Would a fanatic Scrabble player be inherently annoying just because he goes to all the Scrabble tournaments and stuff? No. Is someone who spouts off all of the time about politics inherently annoying? No.

3. That said, I think most of what I feel around certain people (not necessarily white guys; I'm going to include some of my Asian male friends) is a sense of disgust at how they are only superficially into something. They think that they like Japanese culture just because they've seen some of the facets of the gem, without seeing the rest of the culture and its history. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing....

4. Analogously, take someone who spouts off all of the time about politics. Is this person annoying? Maybe, if they only parrot what is fed to them by media sound bites or their peers, rather than thinking about issues on their own.

5. I'm not sure if you're into sports, but I'm a quasi-fan. I know more about the game that a lot of self-proclaimed fans (e.g., I at least know about the origins of the game, mergers of the ABA/NBA, the CBA, when they changed the rules about backing down opponents for more than five seconds--and why, basic offensive and defensive terms, etc.) I still don't know all there is to know about the sport, but I know enough to know that I don't know it all. So I don't make idiotic comments or gross generalizations like some supposed NBA fans might make, like "Shaq is only good because he's big," a statement which would be analogous to, say, a superficially-interested-in-Japan white guy thinking that Japanese girls are like anime characters.

6. Maybe I'm misinterpreting all of this; sorry if I am.

7. I'm useless for questions about Chinese history/culture/etc. I'm trying to change that a little bit, but it's not a top priority right now.

8. P.S. Attraction based on race is a tricky thing to dissect because what we think of as race translates in part into physical features. Few people think that it's inherently bad to select one's mate in part based on physical features. I mean, what if someone likes blonde hair? It's technically racist, but is it racist in a sinister way? Same thing for people who like "Asian" eyes (lack of epicanthic folds.. or the presence of.. I forget which) or dark hair and eyes.

9. I thought you were lesbian or something; oh well, I learn something new every day.

Re:

[camwyn]

No, not redundant at all...

Unfortuantely my own stupidity caused my initial response to be dissolved into the ether before i could hit 'post reply'. Bah. All I can say at this point is: I got sucked in like dirt in a Shop-Vac back in college, when my prof in a freshling year course in Asian Medical Systems gave us basic history for China, Japan, and India to ensure that we had at least the beginnings of information about where the stuff we'd be studying came from.

I went outside after the second class, looked up at the Cleveland sky, and yelled, "No one ever taught me anything!".

I've been buying, borrowing, renting, and otherwise acquiring whatever I can find on Chinese ancient history since then, and more recent stuff when I get it. India and Japan to a lesser degree. That's not out of any dislike - I just haven't been as interested, and I'd feel more of a poseur if I had to divide my attention between multiple countries. I wouldn't be able to study any of them to any really great depth. I got my A in Japanese Culture and Society; I figure I'll leave it to the people who genuinely love it, and meanwhile be over here hissing 'precioussssss' over my Sima Qian and Journey to the West and Louis Cha novels.

Unfortunately I still have to work up the Ainu and what's left of the Japanese for the RPG setting. This is going to be truly hair-raising, as the islands were basically evacuated around 3100 years ago when a giant earthquake sank Asia the way Plato in our world said one sank Atlantis. Most of the survivors were Ainu; a bare fistful were the ancestors of the Japanese people as we know them. According to local legend, this distribution has to do with the fact that a certain goddess got so jealous of someone else that when she went underground she got into an argument with Izanagi and Izanami and killed them both.

Bear in mind that the royal family of England is currently the lineup of the kids from The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, and that Atlantis (which didn't sink) is basically politically arranged like Oz, and that "Jabberwocky" is a botanical mnemonic for everything that lives in the Welsh tropical rainforests. The whole world is screwed up by our standards. It's based on fairytales and cultural nightmares, and it's got giant squid almost as long as the island of Britain. Mucking around with China's been the (relatively) easy part. Japan's people are going to be a lot tougher. India's outside my purlieu, so I'm not worrying there except to note that there is no Buddhism in this world (Siddharta became a warrior king instead). And Korea... well, I haven't touched them yet and hope to avoid it as long as possible.

But thank you for your response, that's at least helpful.

Oh- and no, not a lesbian, at least not last time I checked.

Doh

[yfdp.livejournal.com]

For the record, when I was starting to talk about sports I was talking about the NBA, but I think it becomes clear later on in the paragraph anyway.




As for the rest, which I gathered from your previous posts about your setting, just do what you gotta do. It's okay to muck around with history if it helps the campaign somehow (whether in flow, character, atmosphere, or whatever). Let that be my "ex-GM Helpful Hint #1." ;)




Go to sleep, woman! =P