camwyn: (Real Life (stupid))
[personal profile] camwyn
Okay, so, this morning I'm told the British police foiled a multi-plane terrorist plot to commit widescale mayhem and murder. It involved liquid explosives, which is an interesting trick we haven't really seen before to any great degree. Good for the British police. We owe them an immense debt if all of this is true.

The American authorities have banned bringing liquids on board airplanes as a result of this, I'm told. No coffee, no soda, no hair goop, nothin'. This'll probably be relaxed eventually, if only because businessmen who've got to fly bloody early in the morning are going to wind up throwing their $6.95 coffees in people's faces when they're told Mr. Starbuck isn't allowed on the Pequod after all, but for now? Nothin'. The liquids stay here.

Now, see, I'm looking at this, and I'm looking at the No Pointy Objects variations on the FAA allow list. I'm also looking in Richard Reid's direction and thinking about shoes. I can also think of about half a dozen other places that people who don't give a damn about human life would hide their explosives. (Before you say that putting this in the public eye is giving terrorists ideas, allow me to point out that any half-baked newbie to the international drug trafficking business could probably point out the same methods of concealment without even trying.) And, y'know, I'm thinking. . .

I think we should fly naked.

Screw this whole metal detector, empty your pockets, let us look in your purse thing. We fly naked. All of us. You want on the plane for legitimate reasons? PROVE IT. Put your clothes in your baggage and carry your reading material in your hand. At least you won't be alone. Every single person on that plane other than the crew will be in the same boat as you. Yeah, the airlines will have to put covers over their seats and replace them every flight, and invest in a bunch more blankets, but on the other hand, I suspect complaints about the airline food will drop off in a hurry. Being surrounded by uncomfortable pantsless strangers will kill most people's appetites. Not to mention that people with a fear of flying probably won't even remember their fear. They'll have a WHOLE NEW phobia to deal with. At least there's a good chance they won't have to deal with the Chatty Stranger Who Won't Let Them Sleep, since I suspect most such would-be chatsters will be staring straight ahead a lot more than usual.

Damn it, if the terrorists insist on using the Blow Up The Airplane YAY plot over and over and over again, they should have to pay for it. You want your explosives on that plane, mister? WORK FOR IT. Go talk to your drug-smuggling friends and the mules who work for them. Just how much explosive yield can you fit in your digestive tract before you can't get through the airport door? Have fun getting it there.

I'm so bloody tired of this. I say we cut straight to making the airport security process more intrusive for the terrorists than it is for us. Embarrassment's one thing, but having to stash your explosives in places that require your buddy to wear a rubber glove's quite another. It'll be simpler on our end, too: X-ray the checked luggage and pull anyone walking funny or looking dyspeptic out of the boarding line. Simple as that.
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Date: 2006-08-10 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkerdave.livejournal.com
I'll think about that when I fly to California in a couple of weeks

Date: 2006-08-10 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkerdave.livejournal.com
Oh, and may I link this?

Date: 2006-08-10 01:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jrittenhouse.livejournal.com
The image of nitroglycerin enemas now comes to mind. With a wire up the bum.

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TMI in this comment

Date: 2006-08-10 01:49 pm (UTC)
innerbrat: (uterus)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
BA started the no hand luggage thing. You don't get credit for that.

Is another friend's journal the subject turned to mooncups as an alternative to carrying your tampons in a clear bag, and that got me thinking.

Even if you fly naked, what's to stop terrorists smuggling liquid explosives onto the plane using a vaginal cup, hmmm?

Re: TMI in this comment

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Date: 2006-08-10 01:53 pm (UTC)
sdelmonte: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdelmonte
I think we should fly unconscious. We all get into the plane, and then take sleeping pills. Or get gassed. After a while, TSA goes through the plane to make sure everyone is out. Maybe they puts patches on everyone to keep them asleep while flying.

This would solve many other problems, such as unruly kids, loud conversations, food, and sitting through lousy inflight movies. It also means that airlines will be prepared for the wait for lemon soaked napkins after civilization collapses, and that the odds of surviving a trip to the dimension the Langoliers come from are much higher.

Date: 2006-08-10 02:11 pm (UTC)
sdelmonte: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sdelmonte
More on topic, I am reminded of the Heinlein book where alien parasites are taking over Earth (but not its title). In order to thwart them, it's mandated that people wear less clothes so that the parasites (or lack thereof) are visible. At first, since the parasites prefer to stick to the back, shirtless is the style, though a well dress woman seantor gets around ths by coming to Congress in a backless gown. The alines adapt, though, and one possessed and underdressed woman even is made to hide her controller in a large handbag.

It's commented by the narrator that even after the aliens are defeated, things will not go back to how they were, and the nudity taboos will be gone. Heinlein understood human nature. Whatever it is that we do to thwart terrorism, it's going to stick around even if and when the threat is gone, even without the government telling us what to do. (Not that it won't.)

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READING MATERIAL??

Date: 2006-08-10 01:54 pm (UTC)
seawasp: (Default)
From: [personal profile] seawasp
You're going to allow things like BOOKS on the plane? What are you, a psycho? Naked *AND LOCKED INTO OUR SEATS*. The attendants will be there to make sure we're all locked in properly. None of these wussy seatbelts. Steel-reinforced straps holding you securely in the seat.

Date: 2006-08-10 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] redaxe.livejournal.com
(here via [livejournal.com profile] filkerdave)

It's a good idea. (I saw it proposed during the last wave of air-based terrorism, and thought so then, too.)

And since they're such targets of opportunity, let's extend the idea to major office buildings. There will be a wave of distraction, and a period of lower productivity -- and then folks will get used to it, and it will be business as usual.

Though we'll need showers in more than just the executive washrooms :-)

Date: 2006-08-10 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maps-or-guitars.livejournal.com
I'd be all for naked travel, but I've seen some of the Heavier Members Of The Business Class nekkid at my gym, and they're featherweights compared to the fellas I see flying out of, say, Cinncinnati and Dallas.

Nekkid travel would look pretty unpleasant, Let Me Tell You.

And given that most flights I've been on, there's been some sort of garbage left over from previous flyers - I don't want to consider whose Bare Butt has been a-setting for HOURS where my Bare Butt will be sitting for HOURS.

I mean.

But I've actually just been wondering what's been stopping them from doing the assbombs- Tract too long & strung out to make sure all that C4 goes off at once? Detonators too pointy? Fundamentalist squeamishness about Insertion? Or something like, "I think we need a new cell member. Yes, I know, we're running out of time. But we practiced it and, well, Haroun just stopped coming to meetings. Said he had to stay home and practice some more..."

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Re: READING MATERIAL??

Date: 2006-08-10 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tamnonlinear.livejournal.com
I'm trying to picture the effect of turbulance on a plane full of naked people.

...

wait, now I'm trying *not* to picture it. Oh the visuals, they burn.

Re: READING MATERIAL??

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Date: 2006-08-10 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zsero.livejournal.com
Back when Richard Reid pulled his shoe stunt, and the TSA loudly and ceremoniously closed that barn door, I did wonder what they'd have done if he'd had the bomb in his underpants.

The whole exercise strikes me as much like generals fighting the last war. (Cf Terry Pratchett's Pyramids, if that's the book I'm thinking of.) I think the whole TSA approach is wrong. Instead of disarming passengers, they should be handing out steak knives with the headsets, and if anything happens people will know what to do.

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Date: 2006-08-10 02:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cotume27.livejournal.com
First, I love this and am linking to it in my own journal.

Second, I shudder to think that at some point, it might come down to being made to strip down and wear some kind of airline provided uniform or something on the plane.

Of course, you know what they say: If God had meant for us to be nudists, we would've been born that way......

Date: 2006-08-10 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ouatic-7.livejournal.com
Having to wear the kind of paper gowns medical offices provide would alleviate some of the issues, your fellow passengers become less of an eyesore, and as long as the gowns tie in front, the seat won't be as nasty.

Change in front of the TSA people and they will be happy, at least about the security.

1st class passengers get gowns that are less likely to gape (pull overs or such).

Date: 2006-08-10 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] northstar83.livejournal.com
What if they lose your baggage?

Date: 2006-08-10 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zsero.livejournal.com
WNYC is now reporting that prescription medicines and baby formula are allowed. Okayyyyy. So if I'm a jihadist, I now know that all I have to do is put my liquid bomb in a baby bottle, and bring along a baby for verisimilitude. Or maybe I could even fit enough of the stuff in bottles with prescriptions on them. Barn door wide open for me. Meanwhile the rest of us, who aren't trying to pass off a molotov cocktail as a diet coke, are put through this terrible inconvenience, for what purpose?

Look, I'm about as far from a bleeding-heart liberal as one can get. I'm all for security measures that violate civil liberties and rip the constitution to shreds, the tinier the better, (OK, not really, but I do take a rather narrower view than the ACLU does of what measures actually do violate our rights) so long as they actually make us noticeably safer. But as far as I can see, nothing the TSA does achieves this purpose, or possibly can.

Checking IDs? I see how that helps the airlines, by preventing people from reselling their tickets, but how does it make a hijacking or bombing less likely? Anyone who can get a bomb can get a fake ID, if it comes to that, but generally there's no reason to bother. Taking away people's bullet key chains (http://www.snopes.com/military/medal.htm)? Back in 1996, after the TWA800 explosion, the security geniuses at JFK (pre-TSA) insisted on peace-bonding a 2-inch plastic dagger I had in my bag, with a piece of duck tape. And in 2003 the TSA's Australian equivalent took away my duck tape! All this achieves is that they're seen to be doing something, but IMO that's a disadvantage, because it detracts from anything that might actually be useful.

Date: 2006-08-10 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neotoma.livejournal.com
So if I'm a jihadist, I now know that all I have to do is put my liquid bomb in a baby bottle, and bring along a baby for verisimilitude.

You'd have to drink it in front of TSA officers too -- they are not *that* dumb. The baby formula and the drugs are goig to be checked for explosives, as has already been reported on the news.

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Fake ID

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Date: 2006-08-10 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com
As I stated in my own journal, there's a real easy way to stop this nonsense.

Unwashed Nekkid FanBoi.

Wait...isn't WorldCon right around the corner?

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Date: 2006-08-10 04:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] demonic-scythe.livejournal.com
I think the nude idea is quite good... but they'd need some VERY distracting movies for some people. Although other people might enjoy the sight if they happen to be next to a supermodel... But a good way to counter that as said earlier was to have like gowns or something. But even then they could put a bomb at the back of their mouth or something.
Even if the body did dampen some of the explosion it doesnt take much to take down a plane, one small detonation will damage it quite a lot, especially up in the air due to the pressure difference between what were used to, and what is up that high. Overall i say we scrap planes and get on a boat instead. Takes a lot more to sink a bout than to shoot down a plane.

Brilliant!

Date: 2006-08-10 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scs-11.livejournal.com
My hat's off to you, camwyn. And everything else, for that matter. Once again, you are the Queen of Quotability.

Date: 2006-08-10 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackswanevent.livejournal.com
For the record, as far as I know-there have been uncounted instances in which passengers have gone nekkid (Which have resulted in arrests) and at least two in the history of commercial aviation that I know about where Pilots have gone nekkid and not gotten caught.

These of course were in the glorious days before deregulation when men were real men who slept with every stewardess they flew with, and stewardesses wore teeny tiny hats and skirts that were color coordinated.

I disagree with the idea of flying nekkid as an acceptable solution, if anything because of disease. All the air on commerical airliners is recycled-you're more likely to come home with a cold off an airplane then you are just by being in an airport terminal. If you're nekkid, not only do your chances of becoming sick double, but bodily dysfunction becomes twice as disgusting (Farts from nekkid people are just gross-and it's bad enough on a plane) not to mention the unscrupulous individual to make a pass at your gazongas, or at your "snake" on a plane (Snakes on a plane? Why yes, if you pet him though he gets excited-okay I'll stop)

Airlines and their regulation is one topic that I like to consider myself very-very conservative on-with what little I know about it. Re-Regulate the airlines then ask each passenger to file a flightplan and reason-for-visit with the airline they'll be flying and the government. Prove you've got to be on the plane by submitting to a background check. We can have travel visas within companies, asking each company to conduct their own background check.

Before your trip you'll be issued a special "sanctioned" suitcase and a set of paper clothing to wear onboard. Both pilots and flight attendants will not only be trained in taking your ass down if you try anything silly or ridiculous, but they'll also all be licensed federal employees with the ability to arrest your ass if you try anything funny. We'll be more Gestapo then Germany, and I'd argue that we'd be a step in the direction of an Equilibrium-esque society, but it'd be worth it to just get people on the fucking planes without all these problems.

Since deregulation, instances of air rage, theft, and mile-high club antics in flight have tripled. There's a story about a South African flight where a full-on orgy took place between first class and a good chunk of coach. It only ended when the pilot got on the horn and yelled "-This is not a bloody shag house!" and threatened to turn the plane around. Sure it was a Foreign Operator, but come on-

There's a story about a CEO who got so drunk that he charged up to the first class galley, defecated on the service carts, and smeared the walls and cleaning areas with his own feces before being restrained by crewmembers. And this guy wasn't. even. a. terrorist

I say, the problem with Airlines began long before our species decided to expound upon our colossal stupidity to the universe and do stupid things with airplanes anyway, but

As much as I'm in favor of civil liberties and as much as I take a stand against the United States doing anything to curtail said civil liberties, I would definately be in favor of some sort of stricter policy (then we have) as far as planes go. It's far more of a transportation mode then boats (Which must be why they haven't said anything about us having to learn "body cavity" searches or being on the "forefront of terror" here at the coastguard. Then again I suppose that would be immigration, and we've got enough problems with drug dealers...

Hm.

(It'd grieve me to see things get so bad that we have to background check every person before a flight though. *makes note to put that in her "pre-equilibrium" fic*)

Date: 2006-08-10 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daniidebrabant.livejournal.com
...see, perhaps I'm jaded or something, but it just feels like... like all those specials you see on the news sometimes:

Do you use *insert common sort of household item*? Well it could be KILLING you!!!eleventy! Watch tonight at 10 for more information.

Broccoli: healthy vegetable or potential carcinogen? More tonight on 60 Minutes.

...just...

Rules aren't going to fix this. I'm sorry, but they're not. New rules are just going to have them getting more and more creative. It's like people using too much anti-bacterial stuff; it's just making more and more resistant viruses that will eventually kill us all. Brilliant. The whole idea of setting up a rule to ban liquids seems incredibly stupid.

Ban solids next?

No gasses? BREATHING IS PROHIBITED.

...and of course, no snakes. Ever.

Date: 2006-08-10 04:55 pm (UTC)
ext_74: Baron Samadai in cat form (Streaming Freedom video)
From: [identity profile] siliconshaman.livejournal.com
*sigh*

or you know, they could just install better bomb detectors.
I'm think specifically of the ones they have at the CN tower in Toronto. You walk though it, turn around. It x-rays you, and blows air over which it then "sniffs".

The darn thing is so through it not only can tell if you've got any sort of explosive, but if you've handled any in the past 24-48 hours. It can even tell if you've ingested them. Plus it can sense drugs, or if you're using drugs...
and it'll even tell you if you've got B.O!

But of course, such things cost money. It's much cheaper to harrass the customers and ban them from carrying anything that could be a threat.

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From: [identity profile] siliconshaman.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-08-11 06:59 am (UTC) - Expand

Flying nekkid

Date: 2006-08-10 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bastets-place.livejournal.com
I am reasonably certain that, at my age, weight, and personal appearance, showing up nude anywhere in public could be widely (pun intended) as a terrorist act.

Date: 2006-08-10 04:57 pm (UTC)
batyatoon: (littleme)
From: [personal profile] batyatoon
Also, Diane Duane has linked to you in her blog.

:D?

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Date: 2006-08-10 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] don-tzu.livejournal.com
That is absolutely brilliant! Can we get a clause that outlaws mirrors and mirrored sunglasses, though? And flights with only one man per group of seats? Then I'd be fine with this. Except the blankets. Ummm... people could use them to hide some kind of activity that might be dangerous... Yeah, that's it. So, mostly women, no blankets, and I don't have to see myself or other men. That would work.

Date: 2006-08-10 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sistawendy.livejournal.com
Better yet, naked and anesthetized.

Date: 2006-08-10 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drharper.livejournal.com
*snickerfits*

I've gotta [livejournal.com profile] metaquotes this! May I?

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Date: 2006-08-10 06:22 pm (UTC)
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)
From: [personal profile] azurelunatic
Look, Puppetmasters!

Date: 2006-08-11 03:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eleccham.livejournal.com
Oh good, I'm not the only one who thought that... :)

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camwyn: Me in a bomber jacket and jeans standing next to a green two-man North Andover Flight Academy helicopter. (Default)
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