(no subject)

[camwyn]

*eyes the LONDON news this morning*

Oh, fucking hell.

NOT COOL, YOU HEAR ME? NOT COOL.

quintus? May I have permission to come over there and exercise my prerogative as an American to be an arrogant violent bastich at the people responsible until they whimper and bleed from new and innovative places?

Comments

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

my prerogative as an American ... until they whimper and bleed from new and innovative places

Do you have *any* idea how that sounds? ANY AT ALL?

For *fuck's* sake.

[camwyn]

I'm sorry. I'm in a very bad mood this morning and I figure that if my country has a horrible image as a bunch of arrogant, violent, reflexively nasty bastards, I might as well put it to good use against the people who hurt and scared my friends. I know it sounds vile but those who know me are almost certainly aware that my real response is more a matter of finding somebody who needs a bit of support, providing that, being as reasonably sane and friendly as I can while the zooey chaos is going on, and then wandering off to have a breakdown when it seems like other people can handle the rest of the mess.

The whole thing stems to a certain degree from a Penny Arcade cartoon in which one of the characters cleared out a line at the store by shouting, "I play violent video games! I could snap any second!". Scores of people ran for it, wailing, "Killer kids! Just like on the TV!", even though the guy who shouted showed no other sign of being dangerous. I once vaguely entertained the idea of shouting, "I'm an American! I play violent video games! I could snap any second!" in order to get to the head of the line at the Royal Ontario Museum, but I never did.

As for the new and innovative places, I was sort of thinking elbows and kneecaps.

*sigh*

I'll feel horribly guilty about having said this fairly soon, I'm quite sure. Esp. given my status as a supporter of Amnesty International, the Red Cross, and Doctors Without Borders. But dammit, even a decent humanitarian liberal gets horrible impulses sometimes.

[jeditigger.livejournal.com]

Esp. given my status as a supporter of Amnesty International, the Red Cross, and Doctors Without Borders. But dammit, even a decent humanitarian liberal gets horrible impulses sometimes.

That's my sentiment precisely, as I was trying to say to someone else earlier. If even the typically peace-minded folks have thoughts of violence, things are bad. :(

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

I ... I just can't believe you can say that, and wave an AI icon around that actually shows Abu Ghraib.

We're all shocked and worried for our friends and upset that anyone would choose to kill innocent civilians in such a way. We were shocked and worried and upset after 9/11 too. But in my universe, there is no possible way that that shock/worry/upsetness translates into making torture acceptable even as a joke. ESPECIALLY not after what happened in the wake of 9/11. No wonder... gah, I can't even *express* myself on this... if this is what liberal, humanitarian Americans are like, no wonder... GAH GAH GAH.

I would revoke your honorary Canadian status if I had any right to do so.

[jeditigger.livejournal.com]

Dude, chill. Seriously, lay off. People are upset and reacting differently: sorrow, rage, horror. Why? Because we're human beings and we all react differently in a situation that shocks us. It's the calculated reactions you have to worry about.

Vitriolic, self-righteous indignation isn't going to make anyone feel better. Just let people absorb and cope and feel what they feel and then deal later with those feelings.

[camwyn]

...

shit.





I have friends in London. I have friends in the UK that I don't know where they are. I got five hours, maybe less, of sleep last night and it got interrupted several times. I'm stuck in an office where nobody seems to be responding to the news because they're all financial traders and they're busy and this is my first time in six years that I"m not working for people who can actually DO something about the HOrirble THing That's Going ON In The News and I can't do a fucking thing about the hurricanse either and I can't DO ANYTHING AT ALL RIGHT NOW, and the one time I attempt to vent the horrible unproductive feelings that every goddamn human being has at the bottom of their skull no matter how civilized they are...

When 9/11 happened all I wanted to do was grab the bastards by the collar and shake them until I got an explanation. At the moment that's what I really want, admittedly with more shaking than explanation. But honestly... this wasn't joking. THis was VENTING.

That's all I wanted.

shit.

[jeditigger.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure others understand that you were venting.

[camwyn]

Like it matters?

This is why I don't ever say some things. Not in public journal, not in friendslocked journal, not in private, not even in notebooks kept at home.

I should know better than to ever let on to some of the things I think.

[jeditigger.livejournal.com]

It matters to me.

It matters to us.

[cheezdanish.livejournal.com]

I know exactly how you feel, dear.

[quintus.livejournal.com]

It's not necessarily my place to rise to Camwyns defense over this but f--k it, I will anyway.

I'm looking at pictures from my capitol city, pictures of bloodied survivors and wreckage. My only comfort is that I am seeing ordinary rescue teams and not radiological and chemical teams.

Camwyn has seen far worse in her home city.

Frankly, I challenge all but the most ingrained liberal of any nation not to admit that the prospect of bloody handed extrajudicial revenge on a perpetrator does not appeal to some dark corner of their nature. And when they denied it, I would call them a liar.

[mephron]

Bravo for your eloquence. You said that better than I was going to.

And yes, as a fairly liberal person (I used to think of myself as 'moderate', but I find the landscape has shifted and I have not), I admit that the prospect of a blood eagle or flinging the limed heads of the enemy's blood at them as weapons does hold a certain visceral satisfaction. I also know that those are my barbaric instincts and that I should hold myself above them.

And then I remember the person who helped me get employed where I am now was on the 93rd floor of the South Tower on September 11, 2001 and the dark part of me wonders if an expanse of cracked green glass is the best solution to the problem.

[camwyn]

Thank you, hon. I appreciate it.

*rubs at face* feh. And I was wondering why Pamela had been leaving notes in my brain the past month or so to the effect of GET USED TO TAKING THE WTC PATH AGAIN.

[jjloa.livejournal.com]

And I, being also Canadian, would not revoke such.

People, when angry and scared and frustrated and worried and right pissed off, say things to vent their frustration and rage. That doesn't mean that they actually would do such things. My fiance said worse things this morning as he called to see if his mum was okay. Did I take it seriously? No. He needed to vent his worry, the disturbance of seeing his hometown in such chaos. This is the same, in my opinion - especially with someone who has seen this kinda thing up close.

if you don't deal with your anger and frustration in a similar venting way, your perogative. But some people do, and that doesn't make them bad for doing so.

[camwyn]

When it comes right down to it, frankly, my saner and more reasoned impulse towards the perpetrators of this would be the same as it is towards the OKC bombers and towards the people behind 9/11:

They're mad dogs. There is no cure for a mad dog. But there is no point in torturing it either. Take them out back and shoot them, so that they never hurt anyone else ever again and so that they never spread their madness.

Right now, though, like I said... no ability to say 'I work for the people who can help, who are helping, therefore I am helping'. And I"m not used to that.

The black muck at the bottom of my skull is an acknowledged part of my nature and has been there for a very long time. It's stuff like this that makes me normally refuse to ever let people know it's there. I've looked at my nature and I am well aware of the horrible impulses that arise out of the id. I don't want people to judge me by them, so I don't act on them, don't let them shape my actions except negatively (i.e., I do a thing so as to be doing the opposite of what the black muck says), and generally don't ever tell people about them.

Once in a while, they slip out. And this is what happens.

I somehow doubt I'll speak of these things again, after this.

[quintus.livejournal.com]

Feel free to sound off when and to whatever extent you see fit within my hearing lass.

Me and the dark muck are old acquaintences, even though mine is no longer in the driving seat.

[aberrantangels]

I'm still on much-too-good terms with my darker impulses, with the need to "keep the gators fed" (as Big Steve put it in Danse Macabre). And I don't begrudge you the need to hurt the assouls responsible for this. I'm glad thessalian is all right, and I'm wishing she'd get a chance to be vicious on my behalf (and her own) to one of them.

Don't be afraid of anything you are. Those of us who know that you're not like that all the time will understand. Those who don't, probably aren't the sort you want as friends anyway. *hugs*

[jjloa.livejournal.com]

they slip out of EVERYONE occasionally. Everyone has those impulses to some extent, and deals with them. So I don't think it makes anyone 'bad' to have them ... as long as they try and work to not act on them, and to work against them, then that's a strong person in my opinion.

As I said ... the fiance said a lot worse this morning. well, at least with a lot more swearing. I get the venting totally, especially when you find yourself in a place where you can only watch and can't help, vs. what you usually do.

Venting is good. Bottling it up? much more dangerous, in my opinion.

[jeditigger.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[kyrielle]

I for one hope you still will, when they come up, feel free to share at least with some. I didn't come back to this post until today so I missed this whole thread until now, but I gotta say, there's someone being an idiot and a jerk, and it isn't you. Venting is venting and it was obvious that you were, and that reaction is not a reflection on you, it's a reflection on that person.

Personally, I think you got all their horror at things that they were being "civilized" about (supposedly) projected onto you, and I think that's rather worse than taking it out on the people what DID the stuff.

Of course, I can understand why you might not put these things where certain parties could see them again - but I hope you'll still say them when they need saying, if not to as wide of an audience.

[batyatoon]

...hang on, hang on.

Colonial? In your universe, it's never okay to talk about doing horrible violent things (to people, incidentally, who have done horrible violent things)? Things which you do not then go out and actually do?

Seriously?

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Odd thing about free speech.

The stuff most in need of defence is the stuff you least want to hear.

Odd thing about the mucky bits of the mind, too: it's healthier to talk about doing narsty things than it is to deny you ever had the impulse.

Now, perhaps it's because I'm not Christian -- Jesus did have that bit about how thinking of committing adultery is as sinful as actually shagging the neighbor's wife -- but in my world actions speak louder than the words. We say, "we are our deeds," not "we are the things we spout off about when we haven't had any sleep and we've been cold-cocked by the world for a bit've a breakfast treat."

I know camwyn, and have for longer than most of you. She says things, and writes them, but doesn't do them, in part because of the perfectly healthy safety valve she's built into her id. She worked for the Red Cross for however-mumble years, been in more shit than I can name and while her mouth sometimes goes astray, her money and her arse don't.

That's where I judge her. Not when a "friend" who theoretically supports civil rights accuses her of speaking her mind. That sounds like a bit've liberal fascism, that does.

Isn't it the ones who don't tell you about their mucky bits when they have every right to spout about 'em that you have to worry about?

-- Lorrie

[quintus.livejournal.com]

Angry? Human?

(Mind you, I'm from the South-East and mentioning the word 'Gibraltar' to me will usually generate a very, very cold smile.)