Hrm...

[camwyn]

Trying to get a few things straight in my head for future reference as I work on HB: HP stuff. Suggestions welcome.

1. John's going to have to learn the Patronus Charm at some point, and I'm considering animal possibilities. I'm thinking something small, vicious, and persistent- polecat? Stoat? Pit-bull terrier? Mink? I'd say raccoon, since they're basically curious intelligent balls of ANGRY ANGRY MUSCLE with five out of six ends pointy when enraged, but, well, they're not in England.

Badger also possible because the damn things are known for being formidable defenders and nasty as sin, plus they have a rep in England for carrying bovine TB.

2. Speaking of badgers, sooner or later he's going to have to put on the Sorting Hat. Reluctantly, as he really doesn't fancy the idea of an artifact that can perceive his inner nature, but it's going to have to happen because people are gonna get curious. The way I see it he qualifies for three out of four houses- I can't see him in Ravenclaw no matter how clever he is- but I'm not even sure about Slytherin. Not ambitious enough in what I've read, but I haven't read everything...

Comments

[blackraven9.livejournal.com]

How about a Wolverine?

[camwyn]

*looks them up*

Huh. For some reason I thought they were North American, too, but they do live in Europe and Asia... It's possible. I still rather fancy the polecat idea (long, long ago they figured in an early chapter of Susan Cooper's Silver on the Tree, or at least were mentioned as the prime candidates for a particularly vicious animal killing), but we'll see.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Actually, that'd been my first thought, but any of several mustelids would work.

How about ferrets? Not the cute domestic kind, the ones with the big teeth you send down rabbit holes?

-- Lorrie

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Why /not/ Ravenclaw? It seems to fit, to my mind.

[camwyn]

Given a day off from work and no All-Consuming Menace on the horizon or other such responsibilities, could you honestly picture him spending the day at the library, or in any form of intellectual pursuit whatsoever? He's clever and intelligent, but I don't think cleverness / learning / what have you is what really defines him.

[spiderine.livejournal.com]

Definitely NOT Ravenclaw. I always saw Ravenclaw as an "ivory tower" house, a "knowledge for knowledge's sake" house. The reason that Hermione was put in Gryffindor rather than Ravenclaw is she DOES stuff with what she knows.

John? Not ambitious? Are you NUTS? He set out to become a mage - to learn Things Man Was Not Meant to Know! He took on and WON against Satan, Lucifer, the King of the Vampires, any number of demons and the Angel Fucking Gabriel!

But I think when it comes down to it John is Gryffindor through and through -- he does want to help the helpless, and dear gods, talk about "rushing in where angels fear to tread"! That's what John does for a LIVING.


I would think John's Patronus form is something urban. A rat or a cockroach. But a polecat would do, they're vicious and stinky. Or a Badger. that works too.

[camwyn]

I don't know that it necessarily counts as ambitious if it's basically driven by 'get the FUCK out of my LIFE, and while you're at it LEAVE THE REST OF MY SPECIES ALONE, you bastards'. Somehow I have a bit of trouble picturing someone like Phineas Nigellus being in the same room as someone with a sentiment like that, let alone the same House. (Phineas being my baseline for Slytherins, since most of the others we've seen are primarily defined by being enemies of Harry.)

Lord knows John's got the stones to be Gryffindor... I just don't want to come off sounding like another "Harry is in it! Gryffindor is t3h k3wli3z!!!!111!!!" writer.

Had also considered a Jack Russell for the Patronus, or something else in the terrier line. You know, the sort of dog that'll latch onto its target and not let go until you pry its jaws open with a stick, or cut off its head, or something. But polecats seemed nicely vicious enough to do the trick, too.

[spiderine.livejournal.com]

I don't know that it necessarily counts as ambitious if it's basically driven by 'get the FUCK out of my LIFE, and while you're at it LEAVE THE REST OF MY SPECIES ALONE, you bastards'.

Yeah but he didn't start out that way. Read the old, old issue of Hellblazer called "Newcastle". He started out thinking he was going to be a hot-shot mage, and got in over his head. He walked into magic. If he's saying "get the FUCK out of my LIFE" it's because NOW he wants out, but he got himself into this mess to begin with.

As for "leave the rest of my species alone," that's almost a side issue. He does that because he has to - because nobody else can - not because he especially wants to.

I really think he's a reluctant Gryffindor. I think it would be great if he were a reluctant Gryffindor, because he'd hate the idea that he's one of the "good guys".

A pit bull would be a good patronus for him. It's urban, which I think is appropriate. Jack Russells are to little and yippy and perky.

[mayatawi.livejournal.com]

I think he'd be a Gryffindor, but he'd be very put out by it. Which would hopefully avoid the KEWLIEZ syndrome. Like, "Fuck off. 'Mnot saving you. That's what you think."

Probably go about in a black cloud for days.

Re:

[xianghua.livejournal.com]

Nononono... it should be something small, urban and yappy...

Like a Yorkie. (A friend of mine who is an ACO has a recurring nightmare about a 90 pound Yorkshire Terrier....)

I think a terrier is PERFECT for him.

[aethereal-girl.livejournal.com]

Why should he have to put on the Sorting Hat? He's not a student.

[camwyn]

Not because it's administratively necessary- as you say, he's not a student. It's more curiosity than anything else- mine, the students', the people I know online who've been reading this stuff, things like that. Even if it only happens just before the end of the fic, as a sort of parting gesture- 'what might have been, had things been different', type of thing.

I'm not being very clear, am I? Sorry...

[aethereal-girl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but the only curiosity I can really see persuading John to put on the hat, is his own.

If you must sort him, though, I think a good clue is in the words you're using to describe the animals you're considering for his Patronus. "Vicious" and "persistent" keep coming up.

Vicious is Slytherin.

Persistent is Hufflepuff.

Either way.

[erisiansaint]

He did, actually, get into it to be a hotshot mage, which is how he ended up accidentally not saving a six-year-old girl named Astra from the jaws of Hell. (That's a literal thing, btw.) Which is how he spent too many years being tortured, beaten and raped in a mental institution.

There's a /reason/ he goes mad periodically.

[camwyn]

Eeeyah. Okay, going to have to track down the early early issues, dammit.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I see John as either a reluctant Gryffindor or as a Hufflepuff.

Reluctant Gryffindor has been explained.

Hufflepuff--well, they're patient (John is patient enough to wait for revenge, to put up with Tim AND to deal with his fellow mages and various supernatural entities); hard-working (got into magic to become a hotshot mage, yeah, but he stuck with it even though it took a long time); true and loyal (which he would never admit in a million years, and which he would always blame on expediency); and just. I can still see John yelling at Morpheus of the Endless that Morpheus couldn't leave John's ex-girlfriend in a state of physical decay and psychic torment because it wasn't FAIR, damn it. Nobody chews out the Endless. No one. But John did--and he changed Morpheus' mind.

Moreover, Hufflepuff is continually underestimated in the Potterverse. It seems to be less than it is, rather like John himself. People forget that Hufflepuff's animal is the badger, which is described in the Encyclopedia Britannica as "a powerful animal"; "having savage fighting instincts"; "fierce when cornered"; and "a tenacious fighter."

For my money, John's a Hufflepuff. A very reluctant Hufflepuff. And his Patronus should be a badger.

Confession time:

[camwyn]

I had been considering Hufflepuff for quite some time, but didn't know exactly how to phrase it. It started from the badger thing, because, well, I know badgers. Tough, tenacious, dangerous to any dog unfortunate enough to be sent down their setts; I seem to remember that badger hides were used in the making of shields by the ancient Celts, although I don't know for sure if that's so. Take that and add in the Hufflepuff reputations for hard work and loyalty, and, well... it seemed to fit.

I didn't want to presume too far, though; as I've said before, I'm still learning about John. Gryffindor for bravery would've been the obvious choice, because let's face it, he's got cojones. Slytherin could be seen to fit (though, as I pointed out, I was not properly aware of his earlier motives), but didn't quite feel right- though it was more right than Ravenclaw, which simply didn't work at all, to my way of thinking. Hufflepuff, though... he's got those qualities in spades despite sometimes hiding them awfully well. And it's a less blatantly obvious choice than Gryffindor.

I did not know about the incident with Morpheus. That's something to definitely keep in mind.

Re: Confession time:

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I did not know about the incident with Morpheus. That's something to definitely keep in mind.

It's from the Sandman series, Book 1: Preludes and Nocturnes. The story is entitled "Dream A Little Dream Of Me."

[pandoras-closet.livejournal.com]

I'm going to add a vote for Hufflepuff. John does have many badgerly qaulities. Besides, with him to look up to, Hufflepuff might finally get some freakin respect. He'd be reluctant, yes. But he could be a Hufflepuff

[blackraven9.livejournal.com]

I think Hermione's Patronus is a badger. See book 6.

Re:

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Hermione's Patronus is an otter. From Chapter 27, "The Centaur and the Sneak," Order of the Phoenix, page 607 (U.S. hardcover edition):

Hermione's Patronus, a shining silver otter, was gamboling around her.

"They are sort of nice, aren't they?" she said, looking at it fondly.

Re:

[blackraven9.livejournal.com]

Oops! Yup yer right!