A request, to the roleplayers of the world:

[camwyn]

Once in a while, consider having the bad things that your characters do actually be their fault. Or, barring that, have them at least genuinely believe it was their fault.

I see a lot of stuff in games that I play at and in discussion groups about RP where this becomes a problem of sorts. You see, the player decides that it would be great to put their character through something very painful or nasty or awful. In the case of 'good' characters, this often takes the form of acting evil in some way. Since these characters are perceived by players as being 'good', they are often influenced by an outside force of some kind in order to make them do the bad thing. This is reasonable; this happens all the time in fiction.

What gets up my nose is the characters' reaction. There's angst aplenty, because the characters realize they did something Bad, but they don't seem to take any responsibility for it. 'Oh, my God, I did something bad!'- yes. That's great. That's an honest reaction. 'It must have been this other thing acting on me!'- um. Not so cool. People who do that in real life get snorted at, you know. Mel Gibson, by way of example. "I would never say horrible things about the Jewish people! It was the booze!" might be his official statement, but I suspect more people are rolling their eyes and going "shyeah right" than not.

Mind you, it's perfectly natural for people to react this way, and I understand that no one really wants to take responsibility for doing or saying something dreadful. Mr. Gibson certainly doesn't, although his publicity people seem to be working on that. It just seems to me that sooner or later in a large enough game, the law of averages ought to play out in favor of someone saying 'oh, my God! I did an awful thing! How could I have been so foolish!' instead of 'oh, my God! I did an awful thing! That terrible spell / curse / other person / phase of the moon / evil deity / horrible space monkey / booze / pills / coach / peer group made me do it!'.

I guess it's just that I get enough of people whining about how it isn't their fault in RL, and would sort of like game characters to be better about it than celebrity mucky-mucks who think 'I'm sorry if I offended anyone' is somehow a substitute for 'I did that, I shouldn't have done that, and I'll do whatever is in my power to make it better'. 'The horrible space monkeys made me do it' is a realistic response if Hollywood is anything to go by. It's just tired, trite, and overused.

Seriously. If you like angst, why not try a little shame or guilt next time? It might be fun.

Comments

[tundra-no-caps.livejournal.com]

Damn, is that you in the userpicture? You're getting buff, dude.

[camwyn]

Yeah, that's me this past Sunday on a 55-mile bike ride that went into and out of Connecticut a couple of times.

Here's the full picture. That's not my bike but the picture-taker's bike in the background. Mine's not in the shot.

[unsigned.livejournal.com]

Because you know, this generation of people was raised on People's Court, or People's Court reruns. Where it is never your fault, and it's profitable to blame someone else. At least it's profitable for some attorney somewhere.


Or at least that's my theory, but then again, it could all just be my fault! Yeah, it could be. ;)

[camwyn]

Bleah. If I wanted that, I'd watch television. RP is supposed to be more entertaining than that.

[agoodshinkickin.livejournal.com]

Heh, now entering Sharon.

*is 12*

[unsigned.livejournal.com]

Yes. But I'm just saying it's a learned behavior.

I mean, even insurance companies tell you to never admit fault in an accident, even if it is your fault. It's on the back of your insurance card. No really, look. Ok, maybe not precisely those words, but something like it.

[camwyn]

There's some horrible Israeli Real Person Porn there, I just know it.

[agoodshinkickin.livejournal.com]

*twitch*

oh man...mine eyes!

[erisiansaint]

AMEN, SISTER! Sing it to the choir, baby.

It'd be a great change.

[camwyn]

Yeah, well, you be twelve at me, I'll be twelve at you, won't I?

[agoodshinkickin.livejournal.com]

Your twelve just totally whooped my twelve's ass, and stole it's lunch money.

[tundra-no-caps.livejournal.com]

Good show.

[daniidebrabant.livejournal.com]

HERE HERE! *cheers this*

I don't know exactly where I fall into things on this one considering that I play the guiltiest guilt bastard who was ever GUILTY guilt guilt mcguilt did I mention guilt? with a side of angst, but yes. THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT!

...and there are rude gestures not good enough for what I thought of Mel Gibson PRE-drunken ranting. I don't even know what to say at this point.

[camwyn]

I'm aiming for a century ride completion come September.

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with this. I also realise that I'm dreadfully at fault here, but in my defense if Aziraphael does something bad there are repercussions beyond the apologies. :D?

[camwyn]

Repercussions are good, as long as they're logical repercussions within the character's context. I like repercussions.

[batyatoon]

Y'ever hear the song "Entering Marion"?

I had NO IDEA how many towns with women's names there were in New England.

*twelves at you*

[agoodshinkickin.livejournal.com]

I hate to sully Cam's journal with more Twelve'ness, but there used to be a sign right off the Highway in Sharon, Mass that informed hunters that there was No Shooting in Sharon.

[akawil]

Sexual Tension Between Arafat, Sharon Reaches Breaking Point

[rowanberries.livejournal.com]

Ah, repercussions.

Er.

*head in hands*

[crispengray.livejournal.com]

You know, even playing Hal right now, where the horrible thing WAS actually some other thing affecting him...

I still play it with a lot of guilt that he wants to make amends for. It's a great deal of fun.

[rimestock.livejournal.com]

The other day, Rue tricked me (by VILE GUILE, or something) into picking up an adorably sweet, innocent man named Derek, who is suffering from cruel forces jerking him around, etc., etc., hypnosis throughout his teenage years, went to London and the triggers kicked in and made him kill a man he'd never met.

Mind you, he doesn't see it that way. He sees it as something strange and incomprehensible, because he wouldn't do something like that, except obviously he did, since he had blood all over his hands and vague memories of doing it, and the knife in his hands, and is currently -- despite his lawyer's efforts -- convinced that he is a horrible person and deserves whatever verdict the jury gives, because he did something terrible.

(So seeing this show up on my flist made me go hee. ♥)

[sophistry]

Well, like I was rambling about in chat when this sort of tangentially came up - I think the flailing and the displacing of blame is a very human thing to do. I think it can be very realistic to see characters pussy out and backtrack and try to justify themselves or assign blame to some external force, because that's what Real Life People do - as long as it is recognised OOC/in the narrative/wherever that yes, the character is to blame to [X] extent (depending on the incident in question), and that yes, the character is pussying out of taking the blame.

The problem arises when the player also refuses to accept that, to whatever degree, the character was actually at fault, and tries to absolve the character of any wrongdoing and set them up as a Great Big Martyr Figure.

[vivien]

This is a very good point. I worry I've gone the other way by making Tom too guilty and ashamed at times... Nah, he needs to be that guilty and ashamed. Recent plot twists or no, he was a bad, bad person before.

[nepheliad.livejournal.com]

The time I did that, with a crime really being entirely my character's fault?

It was fun as hell, and the administrators (the IC ones) seriously threatened to make her eat cafeteria food as a punishment.

And that was scary cafeteria food.

IT IS FUN. AND I ABSOLUTELY HATE RPING ANGST, SO I HAVE TO SAY THAT GUILT IS ALL ABOUT THE FUN. YAY.

[nepheliad.livejournal.com]

That was my same initial reaction!

I was initially going to say, "and there's this one character, who killed someone when it really WASN'T his fault, and he's sitting down and going 'lethal injection plz' and everyone else is all 'oh man, someone pay the guy's bail.'

[nepheliad.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Shipping Wars (http://silveraspen.livejournal.com/139765.html?thread=753397#t753397), brought to you by Karen and Bridget.

Really worth a read.

[nepheliad.livejournal.com]

*keeps replying to threads here oh my god*

Yeah. I mean honestly.

It's actually a sad fact how many people who have OBVIOUSLY committed crimes will plea to "not guilty by extreme emotional disturbance or defect."

About ... well, I can't come up with a statistic because I don't know it, but very few of them really ARE because of extreme emotional disturbance.

Yet the entire world grabs at the excuse yay! and trivializes it when it's really what happened.

[mm_madb]

*holds up a hand, tentitively* Arithon exists in a perpetual state of guilt? I mean, he can't stand Moiraine, but even though Balance is achieved he'd toss himself over a cliff because of how guilty he is for his reaction to her? Thingy?

And Martin is in the cells right now because he's wallowing in his total lack of shame over near-killing Mary Anne. He did it, its done, tafuckingda, no he won't be let out early because she wants him to be so. *thhhhbt*/Martin

[lots42.livejournal.com]

Or just go with the flow. Have your character react in character. It's not the end of the world if you fuck up.

[tundra-no-caps.livejournal.com]

I don't get the "Twelve" point.

[agoodshinkickin.livejournal.com]

Only someone mentally twelve years old would find something like that funny...or so the saying goes.

[md_donighal]

Austin noticed this post while he was in the area (to gank the "Move to desert hell-hole" icon for Obi-Wan as he's been meaning to do for a while), which brought it to my attention in turn, and I'd like to join Ms Madb in the raising of hands. Yes, I was tripping my balls off with taint by the end of the Aberrant War, and I wasn't exactly sane at the start of it (at least, not by baseline standards), but the bad decisions that sent me down that road came long before, and grew out of my own pride. Six decades of contemplation in my Personal Space drove that point home. Having genuinely thought I was doing the Right Thing™ doesn't excuse me any more than it excuses those Proteus fucks. But I can't undo it;*all I can do now is attempt to make up for it.

Respectfully submitted,
MDD

* At least, not unless he goes forward with the plotline he's perking on again, and for that, we'll need the go-ahead from Max Mercer (yes, there is one on LJ) and/or his mun.