Um.

[camwyn]

Good heavens.

I was planning on updating the Chinese History portion of megaloceros.net soon - it's been nearly a year and dammit, I have been planning the Qin Shihuangdi section. When I went to my inbox this morning I saw a message for me titled CHINESE HISTORY, so I thought 'okay, this is inspiration to work on it more quickly', right?

This is what I found instead.

Hello there..

Dear Friend... I will say something regarding the page You have prepared in related to Chinese history...

Zhou dynasty is accepted by almost all academicians in the world to be Turkic origin.....and even According to the assertion set forth by S.OGAWA , The world-famous Japanese scholar ,,Shang dynasty was also of Turkic origin and spoke Turkic..

give up of mental sickness that is looking for an Indo-European finger in the basis of every civilization founded by the others....

The history of You Indo-European nations is full of pack of lies...

Um? Excuse me? At what point in the Western Zhou entry did I say even one thing about Indo-European anything? The closest I came was this paragraph:

"The Zhou were a western tribe that may or may not have had some kind of Turkic-based language - I don't know enough to say for sure. They were a fairly powerful bunch, although they didn't have the kind of bronze skill that the Shang did. Best explanation I can offer for why they managed to take over is that the ruler had managed to dissipated a big chunk of the empire's strength. Funny how often that happens. And funny how the Zhou generally felt the same way."

Or am I reading my critic's comment wrong? Is he saying that everyone who claims a Turkic origin for the Zhou has a 'mental sickness'?

Yeesh. Well, I really should do the First Emperor now and see how many people accuse me of slander for citing Sima Qian!

Comments

[quintus.livejournal.com]

I think chummy there is not a native speaker of English somehow and has mis-read your commentry on the Zhou to effectively mean

"Oooh look, these chaps spoke a turkic language which means that they came to China and founded civilisation because they are indo-europeans and therefore superior"

Rather than, "A bunch of possibly turkic speaking yobbos happened upon a weakened china and made themselves comfortable"

Well, short of posting chummy a few Berlitz language guides and a postal course in "Shoulder-chip removal for fun and profit" I'd just mark it down to experience.

At least the didn't mention Aryans, that's always the mark of quality anthropology.

[camwyn]

Since the gent appeared to be genuinely confused and not merely trolling, I thought I'd reply as follows:

Dear sir:

While I appreciate your comments on my web pages about Chinese history, I must admit that your comments left me a bit confused. Are you accusing me of claiming that Indo-European origins were somehow what made the Zhou founders superior? I assure you, sir, that this was never my intent- and that neither my American, nor my British, nor even my mainland Chinese readers have ever thought that this was the case.

Was your comment meant to be an objection to the general academic trend of claiming that the Zhou dynasty had Turkic origins? Given your name, I find that hard to believe - although it should be noted that I speak no Turkish, and am acting on the assumption that 'kemal cemal' is in fact a proper Turkish name.

My only intent in the lone paragraph of the Western Zhou page that mentioned Turkic links to the Zhou founders was to say that, as far as I knew, there was some evidence that they spoke a Turkic language. I had not examined the evidence personally, since I am not a linguist and I am not an archaeologist. I did not want to say definitively that yes, they spoke a Turkic language, because I could not prove that. Neither could I say that no, they did not.

At no time did I intend my statement to claim that ANY language or national origin made them superior. All I was saying was that by the time they arrived, the previous dynasty had become weak. There is no 'mental sickness' in saying that a dynasty whose leaders have taken to personal entertainment at the expense of the country is a weakened dynasty. Anyone, superior or not, could take over a country with such rulers.

In short, I was not looking for any kind of 'Indo-European finger'. And to be quite blunt I didn't much care for the Zhou anyway, especially not towards the end. As far as I'm concerned the culture of the Sichuan region called Sanxingdui that sprang up during Shang times, persisting possibly into part of the Zhou era, was far superior. And, might I add, the Sanxingdui culture had no apparent links to the other civilizations on the continent save occasional trade links with Shang-ruled China.

I do hope this clears matters up.

Sincerely,

The author of www.megaloceros.net/hist.htm and all pages linked to it

[quintus.livejournal.com]

And this is why you are a nicer person than me :-)

As it so happens,

[camwyn]

I just got an answer.

It is not so important who I am.... I am not originally of Turkic origin... but I am a man who is closely interested in Turkish history...

The name Kemal Cemal is not of Turkic origin is of Arabic one......

I dont care about who the Dynasty Zhou was .....supposing that They were Indo-European stock.... What would change?....

The thing I ,as a man who is interested in Central Asian History, hate regarding Historiography is the approach of European Scholars to the origins of Non Indo-European nations...... What I am trying to say with what I sent is to make a statement as regard this chauvinist approach...

Unfourtanetely, I have to express that The present-day Historiography is under the control of some economic,social and other expectation...

The majority of European scholars are chauvinist .. They have a simple aim... It is to prove the master of all of civilizations and states founded up to this day is of INDO-EUROPEAN origin...

I am not accusing you of claiming that the view I mentioned above .........

Those chauvinist IEanists look for a Ind-European finger in the basic of every great state without presenting any evidence ........

be sure that I dont have a feeling of antagonism to u..sorry to u if What written in the message sent by made u sad.....


At this point, I think all I can really say is: Thank you, sir, but- why exactly did you write to me about it then?

Re: As it so happens,

[eevieivy.livejournal.com]

After reading all of this, all I have to say is "...buh?"

I definitely cannot follow the reasoning behind this fellow's logic in emailing you.

Re: As it so happens,

[batyatoon]

Maybe he just wanted to start a conversation about it. "I see you're interested in Chinese history. Hey, look at these silly people who have silly ideas about Chinese history. Aren't they silly?"

Looks to me like the man's got a hobbyhorse, is all.

Re: As it so happens,

[camwyn]

Well, I shall leave him to his einreidenish, then. I hope they are very happy together.