(no subject)

[camwyn]

So.

New York City's gonna do random searches of people's bags if they wanna get on the subway and 'people who don't want to be searched are perfectly free to turn around and leave the station'.

Show of hands- do I start carrying a bag full of mousetraps, or should I start carrying a bag full of some formulation of Play-Doh that feels like dog crap if a cop puts his hand on it? Not that I dislike the members of the NYPD; I'm very fond of cops in general. But since the city doesn't seem to think that the Constitution matters any more (small surprise, since Washington doesn't either)- or that this constitutes a reasonable search and seizure- I'd like to make it plain that if you're going to search me, ever, you are going to have to pay for that privilege.

I'm thinkin' the play-doh. Or a can of non-dairy creamer with a lid that comes off easily- no, then they'd go "ACK ANTHRAX" and I'd be late for work. But you get the idea.

Suggestions?

Comments

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Among other things, they're reserving the right to search after you've entered the system as well.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

They did something similar in Boston during the DNC. I tried to buy one, but it wasn't going to get here in time for the RNC, which is when I needed it for. Really the NYCLU should sell them as a fundraiser.

[dragonwhishes.livejournal.com]

Sparkles. Put sparkles in it.

[derien.livejournal.com]

That's a GOOD idea! That should be popularized! If everyone started doing that, it would be seen. eor has some incredibly fine glitter-dust that sticks to everything really nicely, it would be perfect. :)

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[firestrike.livejournal.com]

Yes, but how often does he have to carry his own gear and take the subway to work? It might make perfect sense in his reality.

-M

[derien.livejournal.com]

Bag scanning? Are these x-rays? I've never seen a good portable x-ray. We do have a portable x-ray where I work, but it's absolutely horrible. Technology advances so quickly, though.

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[maps-or-guitars.livejournal.com]

Kelly? Carrying things? On a subway? HUH. Right.

He's Commissioner of the NYPD: He's in charge of the world's FIFTH LARGEST Armed force. I think he has litterbearers and a bunch of flacks to take turns carrying his cellphone and calling him "Bwana."

[eor.livejournal.com]

My mom gave me some magic pixie dust (ala the IBM commercial from a few years ago) as a gift a while back. The stuff is purple and very, very, very fine. It's spreads quicker than aerosol anthrax.

I think it's a very good statement. Completely non-violent, won't cause harm to the searching peon, visible as a statement long after you've toddled off to work.

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[eor.livejournal.com]

Ewwww, gym cloths. I hadn't thought of those as a Weapon of Mass Destruction form of civil disobedience.

[lasa.livejournal.com]

It was bag scanning - I'm guessing x-ray. She works for a company in Massachuesetts that does security systems for airlines. The thought was to scan bags going on Amtrak trains, but in DC, there are two stations that serve both the subway and Amtrak, so they were scanning them at the entrance (not the downtown location, thankfully!)

From what she told us, the test met with only limited success. The two problems were speed and training of people to man the scanners, but both of these I think would be problems with manual search as well. All I know for sure is that these devices were/are in development and testing with an eye to subway/train station usage.

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[mcnate.livejournal.com]

One and a half to two units, because of their backpacks? Sigh. When I started taking public transit with a backpack (sometimes a very full pack), I made sure to get one that was built so that I could still take only one space with it.

Shameless Plug for Eagle Industries A-III-P-L Pack (http://www.eagleindustries.com/ProdDisp.asp?PartNoID=8). I got it in black, of course.
Shameless Plug for Eagle Industries DETS Pack (http://www.eagleindustries.com/ProdDisp.asp?PartNoID=412), which I almost got instead.

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[maps-or-guitars.livejournal.com]

You have *no* idea.

The Horror.

The _Horror_.

[pandoras-closet.livejournal.com]

I can arrange this. Somebody show me the relavant part of the fourth and gimme ten minutes

[pandoras-closet.livejournal.com]

Well the knives makes sense, but the lighters is strictly because some guy tried to set off his shoe.

[feonixrift.livejournal.com]

Glitter, confetti, strips of paper, ...

[feonixrift.livejournal.com]

I like that idea. :)

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[firestrike.livejournal.com]

Exactly. He probably can't remember what it's like for those members of the lower orders who actually have to schlep their own briefcase, let alone the poor schmucks with lunch, gym clothes, laptop and text books.

-M

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[firestrike.livejournal.com]

Even with a streamlined pack, you still take up more space than you would without it. Depending on your build, your pack will add ~50% to your required square footage. It's actually more efficient to let the people with medium luggage (backpacks, small duffels and such) have the seats and put their gear on their lap.

-M

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[mcnate.livejournal.com]

Around here, that's space that wasn't going to be available to another person anyway (at least, if I'm seated, which normally isn't a problem out here), unless they're interested in getting really personal with me.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

The text reads, in toto:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Re: Oh you're going to LOVE this:

[firestrike.livejournal.com]

Okay. On the bus during the morning commute around here, we're sometimes packed in cheek-by-jowl to the point that dropping my pack and kicking it under the seat next to me when I'm standing in the aisle makes a noticeable difference. I guess it probably depends on your transit system and the hours that you're on it.

-M

[feonixrift.livejournal.com]

Sure, you're welcome to just leave the station, now how are you going to get to work?

[zsero.livejournal.com]

Walk, bike, taxi. Essentially, that's your problem. Since when do you have an inherent right to use the subway?

Now assume that you have no access to any of these methods, and without the subway you have no way to get to work at all without consenting to be searched. If you don't consent to be searched, you're screwed. Explain to me exactly how this makes the search unconstitutional. So long as you have a choice in the matter, and can refuse to be searched at the price of leaving the system immediately, I don't see a constitutional problem, even if the search is both unreasonable and warrantless.

Of course, if the search is reasonable then it requires neither consent nor a warrant; or if there's actual evidence that can justify a warrant then it requires neither reasonableness nor consent. Consent, reasonableness, and a warrant issued upon probable cause, are each independent conditions, any one of which justifies a search.

[zsero.livejournal.com]

I don't think the knives makes sense either. I'd rather they passed out steak knives with the headsets, and said "if there's a hijacking, you know what to do".

[zsero.livejournal.com]

If you refuse, can you simply leave the system, and get your $2 back? If so, then I still see no constitutional problem. Even if that dumps you in an undesireable area, so long as that area isn't so undesireable that it puts you in actual danger.